Imposter syndrome – it’s that creeping dread that keeps us questioning ourselves. It’s time to shatter those doubts by recognizing your own abilities. In episode 8, Kristelle and Jace share our personal experiences, and more importantly, the strategies we’ve used to fight off the self-doubt demons.

From finding mentors to acquiring qualifications, we discuss how these tools can help you boost your self-confidence and relish in those “aha” moments when you realize how truly capable you have become.

Buckle up, listeners! This is the episode where we explore the art of being unapologetically ourselves and the power it has to tackle real-life challenges. Who knew that a discussion about vegan bacon could lead to profound insights about our identities?

Care to come along for the ride?

A Siarza Production
Hosted by Kristelle Siarza and Jace Downey
Executive Producer: Kristelle Siarza
Producer: Jace Downey
Videographer/Editor: Justin Otsuka

Get the downloadable audio version of this episode at www.buzzsprout.com/1913667/13254016 or listen on your favorite streaming platform!

See all episodes at siarza.com/siarza-podcast
Follow us on FB, IG, TT, YT and TW @siarzatheagency
Follow Kristelle @kristellesiarza
www.misskristelle.com
Follow Jace @jacedowneyofficial 
www.jacedowney.com

About Stories, Success & Stuff:

Are you feeling stuck in your career, relationships, or life in general? Join Siarza CEO Kristelle Siarza and adversity alchemist Jace Downey as they explore the bullshit of success and excitement of failure. They’ll dive into stories from their own lives to provide a glimmer of hope and a reminder that whatever you’re experiencing, you are not alone. Through funny anecdotes and compelling conversations, they’ll show you that you have the power to create your own destiny. Tune in and learn how you can explore and shift the paths of life that lead to true fulfillment. This is an inspiring podcast about shifting paths, stumbling to success and creating a life you can fall in love with. So grab a cup of your favorite brew, put on your comfiest clothes, and prepare for untamed stories of success and stuff!

Episode Transcript (unedited)

Kristelle: 0:01

When I first started, I listened to two things One, my peers that were not encouraging Some weren’t, some weren’t. Some of them were my mentors, some of them weren’t. And then I also listened to the little green villain that sat on the wrong shoulder, on my wrong shoulder, that said I don’t think you need to be here, you’re gonna get fired any day. Um, no, so the total sign up. Before I forget the show that everybody has an inner person, an inner character of Ron Swanson. Yeah, I love Parks and Rec. 

Jace: 0:40

I honestly was I’ve been going through grief and depression and crying every day recently and just having very hard time and I needed a little bit of time to get through it and I needed a little boost and like I need some Leslie no, like I need Parks and Rec like to have that boost. That’s another series that I’ve just watched so much and that I’ll connect with at different points where I’ll be like channeling my inner Ron or my inner Leslie or Andy or whatever. Like that is such a helpful companion. 

Kristelle: 1:15

Yes, Especially when Ron’s like I need you to go in the back and give me all the eggs and bacon that you have Now. 

Jace: 1:26

I know you think I’m saying I want a lot of eggs and bacon, but no, no, I’m all of them. I like the best comparison I can give to newer people in my life when they’re like oh, you’re a vegetarian, whatever People like. I ran into an old friend that I used to live with and all that stuff, and we were having dinner and I ordered a vegetarian meal and she’s like oh my gosh, you’re going to order a vegetarian. And I was like yeah, I actually stopped eating meat in 2016 and it broke her brain. She could not imagine. She’s like but you were like the lady Ron Swanson when it came to meat, meat on meat with a side of meat all for every meal, all the time. It was not like a quick transition to stop eating meat. I was absolutely Ron Swanson yeah, oh, OK. 

Kristelle: 2:16

So he’s not necessarily the greatest introduction into Ambassador St-Gerald. 

Jace: 2:23

I disagree. I think actually because he’s like a beacon of authentic living. I think you said bacon of authentic living. Can we get her a snack? I think of an episode in particular where he discovers online reviews and somebody left an online review and it was anonymous and he was like why would you? So he actually goes and writes reviews, signs them and like, hands them personally and they’re like why would you do that? And he goes because that’s my word, I stand by it, that’s my opinion. Why would I hide? And he doesn’t care if people like him dislike him. He is who he is, no apology, and he doesn’t try to be anyone else. 

Kristelle: 3:07

Yes, which is? 

Jace: 3:09

the key to defeating. 

Kristelle: 3:11

Oh, is that how we’re telling you that? 

Jace: 3:13

I’m like just go like, let Ron Swanson be your guide on just showing up as you are and allowing the right situation in people to fit you? 

Kristelle: 3:23

OK, hold on, I know we need to really talk. How did you feel when he started throwing away the vegan bacon? 

Jace: 3:32

I don’t, I’ll have another. Nobody want vegan bacon. Yeah, to each their own. I don’t want to be. See, even he doesn’t want vegan. The vegan doesn’t want vegan. Just let bacon be bacon yeah. 

Kristelle: 3:44

No, imposter bacon Bacon no, no, imposter bacon Smells delicious it tastes. 

Jace: 3:49

It’s just animal fat that somehow we’ve agreed is a food Imposter bacon. No, imposter bacon. That’s hilarious. 

Kristelle: 3:57

OK, so today’s episode. We’re talking about Imposter bacon. Yes, in lunch Imposter syndrome, damn it. I almost said imposter bacon, imposter syndrome. You know how we’re referring to it. 

Jace: 4:08

We’ll be like is this imposter bacon? 

Kristelle: 4:10

Yeah, is this imposter bacon? So, talking about imposter syndrome, many of us have experienced this feeling of how did I get here? Why am I here? I don’t deserve to be here, what am I doing here? I’m not an expert, et cetera. So, Find out. 

Jace: 4:26

Yes, yeah, yeah. So that constant fear. 

Kristelle: 4:29

The constant fear, the constant questioning how we got there in the first place. How did we somehow, as a society, have individuals wondering if, whether or not, we’re legit or not? Yeah Right, so talk about a time that you might have felt, where you might have had a serious case of the imposter bacon. 

Jace: 4:49

My entire first career in media and film and television, I was always in that space of they’re going to find out. I shouldn’t be the one doing this, especially on the technical side. When I moved up into being on the producing side, that changed a lot because that was actually an appropriate role for me, but the majority of my career I should not be there. I was going to be found out that I was. I felt like I was lying to people and I’d have to be like but no, jase, you do have your degree in this and you have worked for these networks. This is factual information. But it felt like I was lying because I didn’t believe it myself. I had gone through the whole thing of imposter syndrome. So it followed me and I’m going to bring in some other points on this later on, things that I discovered. But yeah, basically my entire time at university and in a 12-year long career, that’s awesome. 

Kristelle: 5:56

Well, it’s not awesome that you experience that. Yeah, it was very stressful, but I think it’s awesome now where you can look back and say why did I mean to myself about that, how long do we have? Yeah, we’ll get into about tools, takeaways, about imposter syndrome. I think for me it’s kind of the one-two punch. So my imposter phase when I ate the bacon was most likely it’s going to be a thing. When I was first started into public relations at an agency and I was the social media person account executive online account executive, you want to run and call it I was just the person that at first I even say it to the say I was just the person just to do social media. But no, I was a really critical piece and, in fact, my accreditation in public relations for those of you that didn’t listen to the last episode, the APR is a meaningful tool to any public relations practitioner and it’s like a social worker’s LISW, like a licensure in social work. It’s a payroll specialist, cpp. You’re highly regarded by your peers. You have the highest accreditation possible. You understand the curriculum, you understand the theories, you understand the history, you understand how to practically use the work that you have. 

Jace: 7:25

And you’ve proven that to a certain standard. To a certain standard From an outside source. 

Kristelle: 7:30

With ethics and values in mind. So for me, when I was first started, I listened to two things. One, my peers that were not encouraging Some weren’t, some weren’t. Some of them were my mentors, some of them weren’t. And then I also listened to the little green villain that sat on the wrong shoulder, on my wrong shoulder that said I don’t think you mean to be here, you’re gonna get fired any day. And previously I had gotten fired before because I wasn’t the right fit. I wasn’t part of the right culture. I didn’t have the skills that they thought that I had. I wasn’t demonstrating this capability well enough. I wasn’t smart enough for them, I wasn’t experienced enough for them. So the perpetual defeats led to this imposter syndrome that I had, and I’ll never forget that time too, because I remember specifically telling a boyfriend at the time I think you should break up with me because I’m an ultimate failure. When I was younger and so fast forward in May I got my accreditation in public relations. I, when I started the process almost a year and a half ago, I said this is gonna help me fight that imposter syndrome. It did, and it didn’t. It gave me a level of confidence to not only our clients, but also to our peers, that my accreditation will put us above the competition. At least I hope so, but at the same time, it also provided me this feeling of you can do it, and if you want to use this as a middle finger to the people that have fired you or told you no before, then go for it, crystal. But at the end of the day, you got to be nice to yourself, accreditation or not, and that’s when I realized that’s how you fight imposter syndrome is that you don’t have to beat yourself up or tell yourself you don’t deserve to be here. And we talked about mentorship in the last episode. I think that’s one of the ways that mentors can help mentees fight their imposter syndrome is telling them like you’re here for a reason. So a couple of thoughts on that, for sure. So when you, what was a vivid moment in your media side? You worked for K and M KUNM, right when you’re at KUNM and you got your media degree, et cetera, what was the one moment where you had the aha moment and said, oh, I am ready to be here. I am badass, like I actually do know what I’m doing. Was it there or was it outside of there? 

Jace: 10:05

I’m going to actually throw a curveball into our conversation. My aha moment came years later, when I was running my own company and my business partner came to me in our weekly meeting and he said Jace, I don’t know that I want to continue doing this. And the whole world stopped and I remember thinking is that an option? There was so much relief that came up in me when he said that and he had been so stressed out and so worried. The whole like, oh my gosh, how are we going to have this conversation? Also, it was the key to a prison cell. I didn’t want to do that. I don’t think I ever actually wanted a career in media at all. At 13, I decided I love theater. I used to be very involved in theater as a little kid. I was like I’m going to direct our school show and the teachers are like we don’t do that I direct and go no, I do. Now I’m like, no, I want to do that. And they’re like all right. So I decided at 13, I want to be in that, but there’s not money or jobs in theater, but there’s a whole film industry. So I’m going to do film. And then I never questioned it again and I just continued that pursuit from 13. And then I went to school for it and then I was doing it. I didn’t really have classmates that I enjoyed. I didn’t really love my area of study very much, except documentary, where then I was engaging with people and learning how things work and all of that. And so for me, that sense of I don’t belong here actually was true. I didn’t belong there, I didn’t want to be there. I felt I had to. It’s like, well, I already made this decision and now I have the degree and keep working in it and then you get the next job because that’s your background, and it was like I was just caught in that down the snowball and it was too late. I think all things happen exactly as they’re supposed to, when they’re supposed to, so I don’t want to sound like, oh, I missed out on my life’s path. It led me where I am now and it gave me tons of really good skills that I still use. I wish I would have had guidance at the time to one be honest with someone, because I was not. I was very ego-driven and it’s like I made this decision, I didn’t want to stick with it, and that I had an honest conversation with someone and they went huh, if you always feel like you don’t belong, maybe let’s look at if you do and if you want to be here. So my a-ha came in the opposite form when I was working as a producer, which is funny, because my first mentor was like no, no, no, you’re not a director, you’re a producer. And I was like how dare you, I’m going to make art and I’m going to do all this stuff. He was absolutely right. I was a great producer and project manager and I fell into that role a lot more easily. And the one that was the easiest, most organic fit came when I was doing documentary. I remember the first one I was on that I went on to just do second camera and by the end of the day we’ve got the whole setup for the interview. And the producer pulls me aside and goes I want you to conduct the interview. And I’m like 21. I’m out in LA. I’m like nope, I’m a second camera person. And he was like no, I’ve seen you interacting with the guy and you guys talking. You brought out so much from it. I want you to do the interview. 

Kristelle: 13:25

Very similar to how story success and stuff came about. 

Jace: 13:28

Well, and that, like it was a great interview and that was like my, that should have been my oh. But I thought, oh, documentary is my area, because I was still sticking in the box, right, but that was the organic skill coming out and my area that I love. So it was kind of a mess. Yeah, it was, the answer is, and it went on right. And then I went on and I dug a hole deeper and deeper, and deeper and deeper. And I think in a lot of ways I wasn’t imposter because I wasn’t being true to myself. So, even though I had the degree and the skills and the projects and the money and all the things I was, I was fake, bakinging myself. 

Kristelle: 14:07

Fake baking. Um, I think it’s very interesting as, as we’ve now, this is episode eight or nine, seven, seven, seven or eight. It’s got a number, it’s got a number. The theme of I’m not being true to myself is something that you often say, and and I say this because obviously you’ve learned from your lessons, or at least I hope, or you’re continuing learning or reminding yourself. So, work in progress. 

Jace: 14:30

Yeah. 

Kristelle: 14:30

Everybody, everybody, including myself, as a work in progress. I think one of the things that I learned when my moment of realizing I can, you know, quit that shit, as I tell myself a lot, quit that shit of imposter syndrome. It was, uh, the kumbra’s. So the New Mexico public relations society. 

Jace: 14:53

We’re making a lot of PR references in Mexico public relations society which, by the way, is a service that is offered here that we do well, almost yes. 

Kristelle: 15:00

Yeah, I mean, yes, we do, we do public relations very well the New Mexico public relations society of America as the, the trade association like, where all of us public relations practitioners really kind of cohabitate, gravitate towards. And what was great about the club is that they put on this award ceremony called the kumbra’s and they recognize outstanding work. And the kumbra’s really is not for the owners, as, as one of I won’t name who, but he or she may work here Said, the kumbra’s are kind of like a penis show, cause it’s like who’s dick is bigger than the other, and I giggle about that Cause I’m like, well, a, I don’t have that problem, right. And B I never really thought about that until afterwards and I said, yeah, like it is kind of a flex that as an owner, you can get the best in show, the creme de la creme, like the mea culpa award, right. Really, the kumbra’s are for the account executives, the producers, the videographers, the leads, the supervisors, the managers everybody but the owner benefits from the kumbra’s. It’s recognizing their work and their contribution, so fast forward. So so, to rewind the tape, actually, 2010, I won a best of show with the team that I was with and the owner was really excited because the team got a best of show. But really, you know, in my head I’m like, oh my God, this is exciting, like I know what I’m doing in public relations. And then I realized that moment that I know what I’m doing in public relations Social media. Let’s talk shop for a minute, right? Social media is never considered in the public relations realm unless you’re a public relations practitioner. Digital marketing people are a breed of their own, website developers a breed of their own. Our agency is so unique because we bring it all together. That’s great. But at the time when I’m in a traditional agency, a traditional public relations agency, even if you ask traditional old school advertising agency owners, they say, well, social media doesn’t matter, social media doesn’t really apply to us. And so when we won the best of show, which is judged by peers from another state, of course, I felt excited about the fact that we won and I said I know I can do it. It gave me that confidence level to say that CR is a or myself. We actually know public relations or digital well, but it wasn’t until the APR that I was that I said to myself okay, our company really can feel comfortable doing public relations On a daily basis, even though we had a CR that has already been doing PR for almost five to six years but nobody really knew about it. But you know to to kind of tie it all back in. I think to find an imposter syndrome you don’t necessarily have to go through the links that I did. I did the more exhausting route. Thoreau, thoreau, let’s stick with exhausting here. There were a lot of nights and a lot of mornings that it took for me to go and get my APR, even my MBA confidence that I could be a business owner, not feeling like I didn’t know what I was doing, put a lot of student loans in and a lot of hours and missed memories with my son which, instead of staying up until I’m putting him to bed at night, I would have to tell my parents like please put him to bed or please drive him back to his dad’s so that way I can study and do my homework. It was really difficult to do that, even my bachelor’s like I didn’t necessarily need it, but I wanted it. My mentor told me to go get my bachelor’s and education is a good way to fight imposter syndrome If you do it for the right reasons. I was going to say there’s nothing wrong with collecting evidence correct, either externally or internally, so externally, like I have gotten these certificates. 

Jace: 18:50

Or like this shows that someone has been doing it for a long time, I have gotten these certificates. Or like this shows that someone on the outside, objectively, has said yeah, you know what you’re doing. That’s fine Outward evidence, or inward, where we’re pep, talking to ourselves when we go, well, this is true and this is true, and well, I did do that and that did happen. We’re letting our scared part of the brain know, actually, it’s OK, we’re not lying. There is all of this that we can back it up on. And then gaining more knowledge, more experience, so that we do feel more confident, because it’s like, well, now I have these extra skills or this foundation of education isn’t a negative thing or like a trick. Of course we feel more confident when we have that background. Yeah, it was one of the areas when I think about like camera work and things, like I never went and studied the latest gear, I didn’t care. So when it came to like lighting and this, and yeah, I wasn’t the best because I wasn’t going to get that additional education and so was I behind, yeah, did I feel like it? Yes, so that would have helped. So there’s nothing wrong with I don’t feel super strong here. Let me go strengthen these areas that don’t feel strong in Sure. 

Kristelle: 20:03

Great, yeah, but one of the things you know, one of the things that we can, we can point out when it comes to imposter syndrome, is that some people actually burn themselves out right from the imposter syndrome, and I think that for me in my 20s, I burnt myself out a lot sooner than I anticipated because I burned myself out out on never really feeling satisfied or shaking the feeling of imposter syndrome. So I think that’s something to very much mention that you know. Have you ever felt the moment where you looked at a wall and you said I know that there’s more for me to learn or there’s more for me to prove, but I have nothing left in the tank anymore? Absolutely yeah, everybody’s felt that moment in some way, shape or form. Sometimes we have the grace to be nice to ourselves and sometimes we don’t, and that’s what gets really difficult, especially looking at it from a cultural perspective. You know, asians have that model minority myth, right, that they’re not good enough or they have to be that model minority. It’s almost the imposter syndrome morphed into the model minority myth. You know, you look at the scotish ruling and it was an affirmative action case that actually didn’t work in the case of Asians in Harvard and Asians are a perfect example of how they constantly have to fight the model minority myth of being pushed to be at the top, when really they’re just human beings just like the rest of us, right? Same thing with the imposter syndrome, too, where we constantly have to push ourselves to say I don’t belong here, but I’m fighting to belong here. That’s exhausting, so exhausting, absolutely. So yeah, very, very different. Take on burnout. 

Jace: 21:51

I think Well, and it’s one that you can’t get away from. If you’re in that space, it wears you down absolutely. And I have found the antidote to imposter syndrome and I’ve come about it in practice in my career. Now you talk about social media. In my interview for Content Creator, I was asked about my experience with TikTok and I told the truth. I said I’m gonna be honest with you. I thought TikTok was a rapper and I kept hearing all these kids talk about TikTok and I was like, who is this new rapper? And then I heard a news report that was talking about TikTok being a potential national security risk out of China and my thought was who is this Chinese rapper that is a national security risk? It took my niece to go Auntie, it’s an app and she like had to show me what it was. Was this before or after the pandemic? 

Kristelle: 22:47

After oh, okay, okay. 

Jace: 22:49

You’re like girl, were you living under a rock? No, I just kind of do so. In a position for social media, I could have come up with some BS and said, well, this, that and the other, but I was honest. Nope, I don’t have experience with that. I’ve been out of the game for a while and I can learn that if I need to, but I don’t have it now, which has meant in that role I don’t have to be afraid, every time TikTok is mentioned, that I’ve lied and said I know something about it or that now I’m trying to backtrack and learn this stuff. To back up the thing that I said Honesty and clear communication is absolutely the antidote to imposter syndrome. Cause, guess what? I still got the job and I’ve done my education and I continue to be honest, but now it’s on the higher that went. Yep, we chose her for other qualities, not because of how much she knows about TikTok, and I’ve never had to pretend in this role to be someone I’m not for a single day in my life. 

Kristelle: 23:49

If you did this interview for CRS 10 to 15 years ago, would your answer be the same? 

Jace: 23:58

I would have lied through my teeth, and let me tell you why. 

Kristelle: 24:02

I mean, first of all, let’s be historically correct. Tiktok wasn’t any. Yeah, TikTok didn’t exist. Okay, Cause this is me some jackass and be like well, tiktok didn’t exist. 

Jace: 24:10

Yeah, yeah, we know when TikTok came out. Yeah, 2018? 19. 

Kristelle: 24:14

19. That’s great. 

Jace: 24:15

I don’t know anything about TikTok. I have the young people here. I’m like you guys had to explain this thing to me. I would have lied at that time because I held the belief that in order to be valuable, I had to be flawless, and I know that’s not true anymore. I thought I had to be be without any issues of any kind, that had to know everything, that had to be everything in order to have any value at all. That’s where the burnout comes in for me, when I’m lying to uphold an actual worthiness to exist. 

Kristelle: 24:51

Well, lying is exhausting. Oh my God, I don’t know how I got through the first part of my life. Yeah. 

Jace: 24:56

Doing that all the time. That was it that my whole life was lies, many of us for sure. 

Kristelle: 25:01

So we talk about exhausting. One of the things I always like to ask too is when it comes to imposter syndrome, at what point do we all have to say I gotta let this go, I’ve got to shake this right? Is it past the burnout point? Is it before the burnout point where we say I have to stop doubting myself? I have to be nice to myself. I think when I’ve seen other women executives in the community, one of my favorites being Rebecca Latham, former radio DJ right, she used to talk on the business circuit to other women in business saying I’m fighting imposter syndrome. And for those of you that might not know Rebecca, right now she’s the CEO of the Girl Scouts of New Mexico. But what’s great about her is that she came from being a radio DJ in Albuquerque, left to Red River to run their convention in tourism, then became the assistant secretary of tourism in New Mexico, then the secretary of tourism to New Mexico, then a C level position for a trade association or a hobby association and then the Girl Scouts. She fought imposter syndrome a lot in her career because she was a radio DJ right and who in their damn mind thought that she would be the next secretary of one of the most biggest tourism budgets the state’s ever seen. So I don’t blame her going around town and saying, bitch, look what I did, look what I fucking did to get to where I’m at. Because I had to fight the imposter syndrome, because I know marketing, I know the community of New Mexico, I know what tourists like because I worked in a town that the economic driver was tourism and, most importantly, like I knew what this community, I knew what I needed to do to serve the community as in citizens. So of course she had to be nice herself. She had to let go of that imposter syndrome. 

Jace: 27:11

Yeah, and what I’m hearing from that and something I think is so important, is when I had imposter syndrome, it’s because I thought these are the qualities and traits that they value and I need to be those traits. In actuality, when we just show up with what we’ve got, I’ve learned that the traits that are wanted might not be the traits that I thought Like in our first meeting. After being interviewed, I asked you. I said I know that there were other people more qualified than me for this role that were better suited to it, who knew what TikTok was. Probably this is after you were hired. 

Kristelle: 27:48

Yeah, I remember this. Why me? 

Jace: 27:53

And the traits that you saw in me that were valuable to you and this company were not the ones that I thought were going to be valuable to this, and so when I just showed up as myself and said, do you want this? This is who I am, this is what you’re gonna get, and you saw things and went we do need those actually, and they had less to do with the things I thought You’re gonna have to forgive me. 

Kristelle: 28:15

I don’t remember what those specific traits were, but if I remember correctly, one of them was you think like a business owner, because you were a business owner and there’s nobody on the team that has that trait yet, and I think that’s a very clear. That was a clear indicator, because sometimes account executives are literally impacting the bottom line of these business owners that they’re working with and they can’t feel like someone can relate to them until they actually go in and have a mastermind like you to say, no, I don’t think this is what you need, et cetera. What credibility can the account executive have whenever they haven’t ran the business? Credibility and imposter syndrome hold a different ballgame right, but credibility is something we have to take into consideration. So that’s why yes, I do remember that you would sit. Now I’m like panicking too, because I’m like what else did I say? 

Jace: 29:10

But that was a big part of it and that there was a bigger picture of vision that I was able to hold the other people. So I brought a different element to the team. So here I was thinking, well, I’m not gonna get hired because I don’t fit this specific box, and you went actually, we already have people in that box. We’d love to expand it in this way and you bring those things because of who you are and what you’ve done in the past. So, again, that honesty piece and letting go of the ego component of like I know what’s needed and just being like here’s what I have. Yeah, is this, could you use this? Or here’s how I think you could use this? 세 should have used a body first experienced. 

Kristelle: 29:52

Yeah. So to kind of shore up, like what are we talking about in posture syndrome? Hoping that there’s those moments of, oh, finally somebody understood how I felt when I was 27 at the medical practice, or somebody understood what I would. It felt like to be the only guy in the room that actually knows X, y, z, right. So obviously you said don’t fake it, right, be as transparent and honest as possible. 

Jace: 30:17

And do your best, which is that letting go part, knowing like that’s all we can do. Be honest, be transparent. Do your best until you become it. Yeah, I don’t like the fake it till you make it Trick everybody until you’re already in the position and then they can’t get you out of it Gross. Yeah, be honest, be transparent. Show up at the best you can. Continue your learning until you become the thing you’re working to become. 

Kristelle: 30:42

Mm-hmm, Deciding if, whether or not it’s truly a right fit. You know you talk about that as a as something important. I think there’s something that we both kind of feel is, you know, being nice to ourselves or quieting that inner critic, like crushing that green little Martian on our shoulder. 

Jace: 31:02

I’m more into embracing and loving. The inner critic is a protector. It’s even though it’s mean. It’s very loving. It thinks oh no, if people find out this about you, you won’t be valuable and you’ll be. You won’t be acceptable. So let me hide those things for you so that you’ll continue being acceptable. 

Kristelle: 31:21

It’s loving. It’s the number one relationship advice we should give to young women. Now it is Don’t hide, oh my gosh. Yes, Right. How many times do we have to hide ourselves as women and say oh well, he’s not going to like the fact that I can feel the blood boiling. 

Jace: 31:37

No, I’m like I was talking to someone the other day and I’ve worked at this stuff extensively and aggressively for many, many, many years now and still I do that. And I was talking to a friend and I just thought like oh well, and. When is it enough? When have I done enough? When have I become enough? When can I just be in somebody, be really excited that I’m just who I am, and the world just goes fuck yeah, Jay’s downy man. Like that’s the stuff over there. And then I don’t have to have the sense because I don’t. Nobody’s telling me. No one from the outside world is telling me I have to change, it’s all inside, it’s those old beliefs and it’s so tiring and I am fucking awesome. I’m like maybe I don’t have like the certain qualities for things, whatever, I don’t care. Like I bring a lot with me. And when is the work done when every single part of me believes that? 

Kristelle: 32:42

Did you have the burnout phase? Oh honey, I’ve gone through the burnout phase. 

Jace: 32:45

So I’d be burning out, I’d be coming back Like I’m a get back on the horse kind of person, but I did, I just. It’s like when do I just get to rest into who I am and trust that it is enough that I am worthy Because I know that and I know that. But all of that old wiring isn’t changed yet, and even that process yeah, I’m gonna leave it at that. 

Kristelle: 33:17

No, I’m gonna leave it at that. And while I know that we could very much continue on about this topic, I think this is the beauty of stories, success and stuff that there are moments where we cry, we tear, we have a story to tell, we heal, we don’t heal and we reopen wounds. That’s what’s most important. But I think if there is only one big comment that goes equally for the both of us, is that we’ve both been authentically ourselves. What we do here, what we do outside of the office, what we do in the community, what we do for other people, like that, can’t change. We’ve authentically been ourselves. 

Jace: 33:58

And you should be really proud of that. I’m rewarded for almost every time. There are some people. I’m not their jam. I’m too aggressive at kickball. Maybe I don’t like it. 

Kristelle: 34:07

There’s things like I’m not very I’m very aggressive at kickball. Apparently I’m very aggressive at kickball. 

Jace: 34:13

The team teases me about our scavenger hunt from the holiday party. I take scavenger hunts very seriously. 

Kristelle: 34:20

I don’t care what’s what’s in. 

Jace: 34:23

Oh man, that was great Almost every time, when I do show up as myself, people either don’t care because they got their own stuff going on, or it is celebrated, or I am rewarded for it because it’s like, yeah, that is what we want, and so this is inner, this is an inside job. 

Kristelle: 34:43

Yeah, but I know that we wanted to wrap up this podcast, but I think this is really important to say right, you and I are women, and Justin as a man here that we might be talking to the choir or preaching or just being us, right, but at the end of the day, shit, we’re not perfect either. We fight this imposter syndrome all the time, even in this conversation in front of us today right. 

Jace: 35:07

Sometimes think I look around the room and I go who’s the adult here? Not as like a job, but like just in life. I go who’s supposed to be like? Who can make these? Like? Who do I turn to who’s the adult here? And the answer is like honey, it’s you now. And I’m like that. I always say, like who allowed this? I like tell my mom who allowed this. How am I out in the world being the adult? Like who okayed this? I’m like an imposter as a human person, as an adult. 

Kristelle: 35:34

I’m imagining so many people right now snapping their fingers exactly at that statement, like at that exact statement. Yeah, it happens. Like who gives a shit? We’re just, we just gotta be us, we gotta be ourselves as well. 

Jace: 35:47

Yeah, and then be kind and pay. I love that you keep bringing that up, that being kind, being gracious with ourselves, and that is the inside work where we go. Yep, that’s enough. That’s what you got. That’s exactly perfect right now, oh my. 

Kristelle: 36:01

God, I’m so mean to myself, so mean, like I kept on saying earlier. I said. You know, part of the reason why we have this set change is the fact that we wanted to make this look a little bit more connecting connecting with the audience, connecting with our watchers, our listeners, et cetera. Connecting with each other. I can’t tell you how I cringe at myself. During the first couple of episodes I mentioned that I said I can watch myself on New Mexico and focus on PBS, but I can’t watch myself talking to you because I was just so mean to myself, right, even this whole wedding regimen for working on your skin routine. I’ve got 59 days until I get married and I have to constantly tell myself like Crystal, stop being so mean to yourself and saying that you look fat, you look ugly, your skin routine sucks. I look at these pictures of myself. I’m like I don’t look half bad Girl. No, I just need to shut the fuck up, yeah. 

Jace: 37:02

I just need to in my head, in my head. I just need to do that right or do the opposite. So something that I refer to as positive opposing statements, where, instead of saying if I was worried, like oh, I’m too heavy or whatever I’m fat, the opposing statement wouldn’t be I’m thin, like it doesn’t have to just be the opposite, but it’s like I have value, exactly the way I look right now. Like I can love how I look right now, like we have to change the language ourselves, like that’s that inside job and that’s the kindness piece to it. Because would you marry Spencer if he was telling you you only have 59 days left, crystal, you are not doing your skin regimen. How many times have you hit the gym this week? Only four, yeah, not enough. Girl, get on it. How are you gonna fit into that job? You would not go through that marriage. That is an abusive relationship we hold with ourselves and somehow society has told us not only that it’s okay but it’s responsible. 

Kristelle: 38:05

Yeah, oh yeah, 100%. And I appreciate how, in the last like two to three years, society has really started to open up itself to taboo subjects like this. Right, why are we mean to ourselves? What is imposter syndrome? What does self-depreciating actually look like? Mental health as a whole? Right, you know, all of us are kind of exploring those opportunities, those conversations. I should say we’re exploring those conversations and I think just society’s becoming more open to having those conversations too. I know that we gotta run. Our time is almost up. I think stories and success and stuff has been such a success not only because of hard-hitting questions, conversations and laughs and tears. Thank you for being my sidekick, my host, with this. Most importantly, find us on your favorite streaming podcast network. Find us on YouTube, obviously. As my favorite podcaster, rick Shields in golf, says, smash that like button and ring that bell, hit that bell. I never thought in my life I would actually say that, but I’m not gonna be imposter about this. 

Jace: 39:14

Yeah, do it. 

Kristelle: 39:16

Yeah, let’s do it. You can ask for what you want. Yeah, most definitely and most importantly. Thank you so much for your support and for listening, and we look forward to another episode of Stories, success and Stuff. We’ll see you next time.